Total Savings/Net Worth Forum

[Anonymous User]

Income being the primary builder of wealth is only the case when your wealth is small relative to your income. I suggest you use that income to purchase assets that generate positive returns. Once your assets get big enough, they become the primary driver of your wealth.

+1. At some point, the annual gain from assets overtakes income, upon which you'd consider whether you need to keep working anymore.

[run26.2]

While I 100% agree that you should invest into the market as much as you can, I have taken that approach (C/O 2020) and have actually lost money by investing (admittedly a slight growth tilt). This is not meant to discourage anyone from investing in the market, but I think people are overly critical about holding cash positions. Yes, the market has historically trended upwards, but past performance is not indicative of future performance. Additionally, not everyone can stomach the volatility that comes with a crash. I bet that there would be a lot fewer bulls in 2001 / 2008. You should only invest what you are willing to lose, and that's a subjective judgment. Not everyone is strictly happier optimizing for expected value.


Also, while investing is a big factor in building wealth, don't lose sight of the primary builder of wealth - your income. Decisions like sticking it out in biglaw instead of taking that in-house job, gunning for partner, deciding to hold off retirement for a couple years, and etc. are likely to play a much bigger factor in your overall NW.

Income being the primary builder of wealth is only the case when your wealth is small relative to your income. I suggest you use that income to purchase assets that generate positive returns. Once your assets get big enough, they become the primary driver of your wealth.

Outside of basic index funds, what other "assets" would you recommend?

You have to evaluate each asset for appropriateness for your own situation. But the types are legion. Individual stocks, targeted funds, residential or commercial real estate, crowd funded real estate, businesses metals, commodities, crypto, insurance, any number of passive income streams, etc. One of the issues with figuring some of these out, and taking advantage of them, as a biglaw attorney, is that your time tends to be limited and focused on your clients. So you have to figure out how to devote some time to understanding each of these types and whether it is right for your situation.

[Anonymous User]

While I 100% agree that you should invest into the market as much as you can, I have taken that approach (C/O 2020) and have actually lost money by investing (admittedly a slight growth tilt). This is not meant to discourage anyone from investing in the market, but I think people are overly critical about holding cash positions. Yes, the market has historically trended upwards, but past performance is not indicative of future performance. Additionally, not everyone can stomach the volatility that comes with a crash. I bet that there would be a lot fewer bulls in 2001 / 2008. You should only invest what you are willing to lose, and that's a subjective judgment. Not everyone is strictly happier optimizing for expected value.


Also, while investing is a big factor in building wealth, don't lose sight of the primary builder of wealth - your income. Decisions like sticking it out in biglaw instead of taking that in-house job, gunning for partner, deciding to hold off retirement for a couple years, and etc. are likely to play a much bigger factor in your overall NW.

Income being the primary builder of wealth is only the case when your wealth is small relative to your income. I suggest you use that income to purchase assets that generate positive returns. Once your assets get big enough, they become the primary driver of your wealth.

Outside of basic index funds, what other "assets" would you recommend?

You have to evaluate each asset for appropriateness for your own situation. But the types are legion. Individual stocks, targeted funds, residential or commercial real estate, crowd funded real estate, businesses metals, commodities, crypto, insurance, any number of passive income streams, etc. One of the issues with figuring some of these out, and taking advantage of them, as a biglaw attorney, is that your time tends to be limited and focused on your clients. So you have to figure out how to devote some time to understanding each of these types and whether it is right for your situation.

At most biglaw firms you typically need firm-approval to purchase individual stocks. Plus, beating the market is a tiresome and often futile endeavor.

I'd just put whatever you have leftover each month in a low-overhead broad market ETF (total market like VTI or S&P like VOO) and quit worrying. Time in >>> timing/picking. It pays to be riskier on your 401k, so perhaps sprinkle in some low overhead small cap or value funds as well. You might make more using another strategy, but IMHO it's not worth the headache.

[run26.2]

At most biglaw firms you typically need firm-approval to purchase individual stocks. Plus, beating the market is a tiresome and often futile endeavor.

Agree. Just listing it among the various (non-exhaustive) options.

[Sackboy]

The recent salary raises are cumulatively higher over 8 years than my investment gains in the same time period, and I'm aggressive about dumping money into the market. When I started an 8th year's total comp was $337K. It's now $530k. That's a TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLAR difference. Very similar deltas for years 6 and 7. That's almost $600k in increased cumulative salary alone.

This relies on the assumption that your firm doesn't snub you on market bonus (outside of the V10, it's not particularly guaranteed "despite" hours), inflation won't substantially destroy all of these increases through increased consumption costs, ignores the fact that these increases are happening in the top marginal brackets, that the market can chill in a second and freeze wages for a decade again like was the case when things were stuck at $160k, and that $1 million in savings today equals $1 million in savings in 7 years. But, otherwise, no comments.

[Anonymous User]

The recent salary raises are cumulatively higher over 8 years than my investment gains in the same time period, and I'm aggressive about dumping money into the market. When I started an 8th year's total comp was $337K. It's now $530k. That's a TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLAR difference. Very similar deltas for years 6 and 7. That's almost $600k in increased cumulative salary alone.

This relies on the assumption that your firm doesn't snub you on market bonus (outside of the V10, it's not particularly guaranteed "despite" hours), inflation won't substantially destroy all of these increases through increased consumption costs, ignores the fact that these increases are happening in the top marginal brackets, that the market can chill in a second and freeze wages for a decade again like was the case when things were stuck at $160k, and that $1 million in savings today equals $1 million in savings in 7 years. But, otherwise, no comments.

Yeah, the question was “one million dollars cash in seven years”, not “one million dollars cash in 2022 dollars in seven years”.

[Sackboy]

Yeah, the question was “one million dollars cash in seven years”, not “one million dollars cash in 2022 dollars in seven years”.

It'll be super easy for my great great great great great grandchildren to become billionaires. Glad that that's a super useful statement. No additional context needed.

[Anonymous User]

$1.7mil net worth
$250k cash
$1.35mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$100k crypto

Graduated with ~$65k debt. NYC biglaw 9/10th year.

This is fun, I'll do what the other poster did as well. Seventh months later:

$2 mil net worth
$1.7 mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$190k crypto (no new purchases, just "appreciation")
$100k cash

Just kept dumping money into the market. If it stops going up I'll be very sad. Leaving biglaw soon to go into a legal-adjacent field.

Every time I think about quitting biglaw, I come back to your post. I would be quite happy with even $1 million, so I just need to grind it out a few more years…

I'm pretty sure this was me, and I'm now down to $1.9ish mil net worth. Live by the market die by the market.

Checking in again, down to ~$1.5ish lol.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I see a lot of people holding crypto. What crypto are you holding? Mostly Bitcoin? Also, what did you hold it in, Coinbase?

Roughly 45% Bitcoin, 45% Etherium, 10% mix of other non-shit alt-coins (BNB, ADA, SOL, XRP, XLM, Etc.), holding mainly in a Ledger hardware wallet, but toying with the idea of moving some to Crypto.com to take advantage of their "Earn" feature (e.g., 5.5% APY on Etherium).

What are your (and other people's) thoughts on Gemini "Earn"? If you swap USD -> Gemini Dollar you can get a crazy 8+% APY. Aside from not being FDIC insured, it seems too good to be true?

You hit the nail on the head. You are taking a regulatory and default risk when you put money in a stablecoin instead of a regulated/insured bank account. Yes, they say they have backed it with USD, but several stablecoins have been investigated for lying or misleading about their reserves. If they truly have $1 in reserves for every $1 deposited, they are relying on risk returns to pay that 8% interest. You don't get 8% returns + enough for overhead without risk in today's investment environment.

Amazing how this discussion aged lol

[Anonymous User]

$1.7mil net worth
$250k cash
$1.35mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$100k crypto

Graduated with ~$65k debt. NYC biglaw 9/10th year.

This is fun, I'll do what the other poster did as well. Seventh months later:

$2 mil net worth
$1.7 mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$190k crypto (no new purchases, just "appreciation")
$100k cash

Just kept dumping money into the market. If it stops going up I'll be very sad. Leaving biglaw soon to go into a legal-adjacent field.

Every time I think about quitting biglaw, I come back to your post. I would be quite happy with even $1 million, so I just need to grind it out a few more years…

I'm pretty sure this was me, and I'm now down to $1.9ish mil net worth. Live by the market die by the market.

Checking in again, down to ~$1.5ish lol.

Jesus. I'm impressed you calculate these losses. I'm too scared to, I honestly haven't even looked at my portfolio in the last month. I had put ~$300k in an ETF like VT/VOO in March -- literally 1 month before the rout. So I'm just closing my eyes and not opening them for another 6 months or so

[Anonymous User]

$1.7mil net worth
$250k cash
$1.35mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$100k crypto

Graduated with ~$65k debt. NYC biglaw 9/10th year.

This is fun, I'll do what the other poster did as well. Seventh months later:

$2 mil net worth
$1.7 mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$190k crypto (no new purchases, just "appreciation")
$100k cash

Just kept dumping money into the market. If it stops going up I'll be very sad. Leaving biglaw soon to go into a legal-adjacent field.

Every time I think about quitting biglaw, I come back to your post. I would be quite happy with even $1 million, so I just need to grind it out a few more years…

I'm pretty sure this was me, and I'm now down to $1.9ish mil net worth. Live by the market die by the market.

Checking in again, down to ~$1.5ish lol.

Jesus. I'm impressed you calculate these losses. I'm too scared to, I honestly haven't even looked at my portfolio in the last month. I had put ~$300k in an ETF like VT/VOO in March -- literally 1 month before the rout. So I'm just closing my eyes and not opening them for another 6 months or so

I track mine with an app. I think it's better to know where you stand, and you get numb to it after a few downturns. Main thing is not to panic and sell everything at the lows.

[Anonymous User]

$1.7mil net worth
$250k cash
$1.35mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$100k crypto

Graduated with ~$65k debt. NYC biglaw 9/10th year.

This is fun, I'll do what the other poster did as well. Seventh months later:

$2 mil net worth
$1.7 mil equities (incl. 401k/IRA)
$190k crypto (no new purchases, just "appreciation")
$100k cash

Just kept dumping money into the market. If it stops going up I'll be very sad. Leaving biglaw soon to go into a legal-adjacent field.

Every time I think about quitting biglaw, I come back to your post. I would be quite happy with even $1 million, so I just need to grind it out a few more years…

I'm pretty sure this was me, and I'm now down to $1.9ish mil net worth. Live by the market die by the market.

Checking in again, down to ~$1.5ish lol.

Jesus. I'm impressed you calculate these losses. I'm too scared to, I honestly haven't even looked at my portfolio in the last month. I had put ~$300k in an ETF like VT/VOO in March -- literally 1 month before the rout. So I'm just closing my eyes and not opening them for another 6 months or so

Mint tells me. This one actually doesn't hurt. It's kind of refreshing to see the numbers go down but my life not change at all. Helping with some insecurities, perhaps.

[Anonymous User]

So this is where we brag about our money? I inherited $12.3 million from my dad. Get owned.

Mod note: User Alive97 outed for Anon abuse.

[Anonymous User]

So this is where we brag about our money? I inherited $12.3 million from my dad. Get owned.

How much did the kids that he loved get?

Mod Note: User thisismytlsuername outed for anon abuse.

[Anonymous User]

So this is where we brag about our money? I inherited $12.3 million from my dad. Get owned.

You do sound like a trust-fund baby, taking the comments here as a slight/challenge.

Mod Note: User omar.comin outed for anon abuse.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

So this is where we brag about our money? I inherited $12.3 million from my dad. Get owned.

why the fuck are you doing law?

[Anonymous User]

So this is where we brag about our money? I inherited $12.3 million from my dad. Get owned.

why the fuck are you doing law?

Pursuing "creative passions" duh

[Anonymous User]

So this is where we brag about our money? I inherited $12.3 million from my dad. Get owned.

why the fuck are you doing law?

I mean, the top NY rainmakers are now making $15-20 million a year, and they still seem to be "doing law". As a general matter, not easy to leave law firm life when the alternative is a huge pay cut.

[nealric]

Mod reminder note: The anon feature is for posting personally sensitive information. If you use it for flame wars or off topic posts, your real user name will be posted. Keep doing it and you'll get banned from the forum.

[thisismytlsuername]

Mod reminder note: The anon feature is for posting personally sensitive information. If you use it for flame wars or off topic posts, your real user name will be posted. Keep doing it and you'll get banned from the forum.

I don't particularly care because I post with my name except when it matters or when I forget, but the selective enforcement of the anonymity rules is my least favorite thing about this website.

[nealric]

Mod reminder note: The anon feature is for posting personally sensitive information. If you use it for flame wars or off topic posts, your real user name will be posted. Keep doing it and you'll get banned from the forum.

I don't particularly care because I post with my name except when it matters or when I forget, but the selective enforcement of the anonymity rules is my least favorite thing about this website.

There aren't enough active moderators to read every post. I personally give posters the benefit of the doubt when posting anon, but when it's clearly just devolved in a flame war, I shut it down. I will always enforce when anon is used to troll or abuse other posters and I see it or it's otherwise brought to my attention.

I think changes to the site design could help a lot. A policy reminder message when posting anon would go a long way. But that's above my paygrade.

[cornerstone]

Mod reminder note: The anon feature is for posting personally sensitive information. If you use it for flame wars or off topic posts, your real user name will be posted. Keep doing it and you'll get banned from the forum.

I don't particularly care because I post with my name except when it matters or when I forget, but the selective enforcement of the anonymity rules is my least favorite thing about this website.

There aren't enough active moderators to read every post. I personally give posters the benefit of the doubt when posting anon, but when it's clearly just devolved in a flame war, I shut it down. I will always enforce when anon is used to troll or abuse other posters and I see it or it's otherwise brought to my attention.

I think changes to the site design could help a lot. A policy reminder message when posting anon would go a long way. But that's above my paygrade.

I think a clearer policy would help too. The current warning is vague - there's a lot of room between harassment/joking and posting sensitive employment information. It sounds like you treat that gray area as fair anon use by giving posters the benefit of the doubt, but having that codified in an explicit policy would really help. I'm personally in favor of more permissive anon use along the lines of what you outlined.

[Sackboy]

Maybe ask more people to be active moderators?

[Anonymous User]

$1.4m total net worth.

$700k cash.

Looks like people told me to invest my cash in ETFs last time I looked at this thread over a year ago but instead I stayed in cash and let inflation eat away at my net worth.